8/20 Overall Impressions
The Fellowship of Presbyterians has now become "The Fellowship Community." There has been a friendly separation from the Evangelical Covenant Order (ECO). We still share the same theology and share in many mission ventures together. Mission Accountability Groups and Pastor Accountability Groups are intertwined still between Fellowship affiliated churches and ECO churches (we can still learn from each other, still hold each other's feet to the fire for doing the Lord's work). There was some administrative confusion. Also, this will allow for more variety in meetings. We could have a Fellowship meeting without ECO, for example.
Having been to both the PCUSA General Assembly (five times) and this Fellowship National Gathering, I would say I am so much more encouraged at the Fellowship gathering, and felt we had some great and practical teaching, good fellowship, some movement toward real accountability, and a sense the church was moving forward- instead of I have to go back and apologize for some debate. There was very little debate, but lots of thought and a sense of pulling together to reach people for Christ, and do justice. There were many more mission affinity groups at this gathering than at the PCUSA General Assembly.
Philippians 2:1-2 says, "If you have any encouragement from being united in Christ, if any comfort in his love, if any fellowship from the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by BEING LIKE-MINDED, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose." I felt I was with folk who shared the same beliefs and the same goals as our church. There was a sense of moving forward in glorifying Christ.
We had General Assembly folk there. The PCUSA 1001 Worshiping Communities folk were there. Went to a seminar by Vera White. Linda Valentine, the CEO for our PCUSA Presbyterian Mission Agency spoke to the Fellowship group. She mentioned that she (the PMA) wanted to be there for us if we had questions or help doing missions.
I am especially grateful for the leadership of Paul Detterman, Jim Singleton, and Bill Teng who have helped pilot our ship into these waters.
In short, it was one of the best, most encouraging conferences I have been to. There was little angst over what was going on in the PCUSA, but a lot of focus on doing the Lord's work.
Thursday, August 21, 2014
Tuesday, August 19, 2014
8/19/14 National Convention thoughts
Today heard Alan Hirsch speak of our natural desire for fellowship or communitas. It comes out of our wilderness time (liminality). So when 9-11 happened the cold New Yorkers opened up shop doors. Two years later they opened up their houses to strangers stranded in the power outage. When we go through hard times we become a band of brothers- and pull together for a common cause. Our mission and purpose come from our hard times together. Hirsch pointed out that 80% of our youth quit believing their first year of college because we have sheltered them and they have not had to test their faith. It is like putting a fish in the aquarium into the ocean and expecting them to survive. We need to allow learning by trials in order to help our young to get tough.
Kevin Graham Ford, nephew of Billy Graham and son of Leighton Ford, spoke. He talked of how he had asked for a tree house for Christmas. On Christmas day his dad took him out to the drive where he saw hammer, nails, saw and wood on the ground for them to build it together. We need to know responsibility in order to do missions. We tend to be consumers- who will never know community. It is in serving that we learn to love and become a community. We are in a consumer culture- what will I get out of this? is our question not what can I give.
Kent Carlson and MIke Leuken- co pastors of Oak Hill church in Folsom CA spoke. They had brought the church plant from 100 to 1,000 in just a few months. But were constantly trying to entertain with lights, music, seeker service. They were not making disciples. Quit being so seeker friendly and changed to try to help people be spiritually formed and lost 1,500 members in 2 years. Church is not about entertaining but serving.
Vera White spoke in a seminar on 1001 worshiping communities. There are 259 now. They are to be self governing, self propogating, and self sustaining. It is a reaction to what they were seeing happening all over- a movement of the spirit- reaching out to others- campers, neighborhoods, inter-racial communities.
Overall great day Much to think about.
Kevin Graham Ford, nephew of Billy Graham and son of Leighton Ford, spoke. He talked of how he had asked for a tree house for Christmas. On Christmas day his dad took him out to the drive where he saw hammer, nails, saw and wood on the ground for them to build it together. We need to know responsibility in order to do missions. We tend to be consumers- who will never know community. It is in serving that we learn to love and become a community. We are in a consumer culture- what will I get out of this? is our question not what can I give.
Kent Carlson and MIke Leuken- co pastors of Oak Hill church in Folsom CA spoke. They had brought the church plant from 100 to 1,000 in just a few months. But were constantly trying to entertain with lights, music, seeker service. They were not making disciples. Quit being so seeker friendly and changed to try to help people be spiritually formed and lost 1,500 members in 2 years. Church is not about entertaining but serving.
Vera White spoke in a seminar on 1001 worshiping communities. There are 259 now. They are to be self governing, self propogating, and self sustaining. It is a reaction to what they were seeing happening all over- a movement of the spirit- reaching out to others- campers, neighborhoods, inter-racial communities.
Overall great day Much to think about.
National Gathering Dallas Day 1 8/18
8/18/14- National Gathering report.
The National Gathering in Dallas is simply amazing, encouraging and inspiring.
LAUNCHING OF FELLOWSHIP COMMUNITY- ECO and The Fellowship are now two separate deals. The Fellowship Community is for PCUSA folk called to stay in the PCUSA and minister. That would be LMPC. Heard Linda Valentine- executive director of the PCUSA Presbyt3erian Mission Agency (in effect the chief executive officer of the PCUSA) speak to us about partnering together to make the church better. She challenged us to do more for international missions and 1001 worshiping communities. We were encouraged to not be shy about working with other churches in and outside of our denomination- including ECO. Dana Allen thanked the fellowship for helping them and said we want to continue to do the Lord's mission work together. We were encouraged to do Mission Affinity Groups and Pastor Accountability Groups to help us sharpen each other's mission for Christ. Mark Brewer is the new president of The Fellowship Community. This is different from PFR. Fellowship Community is not an exit ramp or waiting room for ECO but for those who wish to do purposefully do mission in PCUSA. Paul Detterman said that several presbytery and synod execs approached him to help them with their churches once they felt that Paul and the Fellowship folk were not trying to lead people out. Paul has been contacted by United Methodists, Lutherans, Episcopalians and UCC folk who all wanted to partner together with Presbyterians who were staying in the mainline.
This is out of sequence but this was a Pre-Gathering event I went to- Normally this conference has avoided this topic- and it is not the main or even a single issue here.
This is what I heard. Debra Hirsch (Alan Hirsh's wife- who helped write "Untamed" and is writing a new book "Unleashing Sexuality" was amazing. Debra is from Australia. She was in a bad place- had been abused sexually as a young girl and had gone into the drug scene and was living with another woman as a lesbian and saw nothing wrong. She has been a Christian and married to Alan (a great theologian and church consultant) for 22 years now. Many of her friends became Christians through the ministry of her former drug addict who reached out to them all after his own conversion.
Here are a couple of nuggets: "If you are not offended by something in the gospel- you are not reading it clearly" (Tim Keller). Some people have disgust for different sins- a visceral response. But in order to reach people who are caught in sexual confusion and brokenness we need to treat them not with condemnation but with love as Jesus did in John 8. Surveys by young non-church urban folk indicate that they judge us by saying we are "anti-gay" when we really need to be reaching out to all people with the love of Christ. If we are not reaching out then we are failing to be the church. G.K. Chesteron said that a man knocking on the door of a brothel is in fact looking for Jesus. Debra said that women often condemn men for pornography but then hide behind the soft porn of celebrity worship and gossip which arouse some crazy things. It was an interesting take on some of these things. I agreed with so much and was inspired to do more- especially in AIDS ministry.
MONDAY NI\GHT WORSHIP-
Highland Park Presbyterian brought in their 100 person choir and led us in singing about five hymns and then they sang about three anthems- with the organ and the piano. It was just amazing music! Just amazing classical anthems and hymns. I got into that. Not as much contemporary worship songs here at this point- that is okay with me for my tastes, though I can appreciate a little of that too.
But the talk this night was simply earth-shaking- you could almost feel the Spirit vibrating the room. It was by Carol Kaminski (prof. of Hebrew at Gordon Conwell- also from Australia). Her main theme was Genesis 12:1-3. This is, the key mission text, the beginning of mission (besides be fruitful and multiply). It was given in a context of barrenness. God often uses bad/sad circumstances to bring about real missions- Sara was barren (Gen 18:11; 11:30). It was in the midst of this that God showed Abraham the stars and said, "Look at the stars you will be more numerous." It was in the slavery of Egypt that the numbers of the Israelites grew to fulfill the command to be fruitful and multiply. It was in Gideon (least person of the smallest tribes) who was told he had too many- to show that it was God who did it. Jehoshaphat marched out against a vast host calling on God to show Himself- He did. Naomi went to Ruth because there was a famine in the land. God takes the most difficult circumstances- our brokenness and brings mission out of that. So encouraging in our situation in the PCUSA.
All of this was just inspiring.
The National Gathering in Dallas is simply amazing, encouraging and inspiring.
LAUNCHING OF FELLOWSHIP COMMUNITY- ECO and The Fellowship are now two separate deals. The Fellowship Community is for PCUSA folk called to stay in the PCUSA and minister. That would be LMPC. Heard Linda Valentine- executive director of the PCUSA Presbyt3erian Mission Agency (in effect the chief executive officer of the PCUSA) speak to us about partnering together to make the church better. She challenged us to do more for international missions and 1001 worshiping communities. We were encouraged to not be shy about working with other churches in and outside of our denomination- including ECO. Dana Allen thanked the fellowship for helping them and said we want to continue to do the Lord's mission work together. We were encouraged to do Mission Affinity Groups and Pastor Accountability Groups to help us sharpen each other's mission for Christ. Mark Brewer is the new president of The Fellowship Community. This is different from PFR. Fellowship Community is not an exit ramp or waiting room for ECO but for those who wish to do purposefully do mission in PCUSA. Paul Detterman said that several presbytery and synod execs approached him to help them with their churches once they felt that Paul and the Fellowship folk were not trying to lead people out. Paul has been contacted by United Methodists, Lutherans, Episcopalians and UCC folk who all wanted to partner together with Presbyterians who were staying in the mainline.
This is out of sequence but this was a Pre-Gathering event I went to- Normally this conference has avoided this topic- and it is not the main or even a single issue here.
This is what I heard. Debra Hirsch (Alan Hirsh's wife- who helped write "Untamed" and is writing a new book "Unleashing Sexuality" was amazing. Debra is from Australia. She was in a bad place- had been abused sexually as a young girl and had gone into the drug scene and was living with another woman as a lesbian and saw nothing wrong. She has been a Christian and married to Alan (a great theologian and church consultant) for 22 years now. Many of her friends became Christians through the ministry of her former drug addict who reached out to them all after his own conversion.
Here are a couple of nuggets: "If you are not offended by something in the gospel- you are not reading it clearly" (Tim Keller). Some people have disgust for different sins- a visceral response. But in order to reach people who are caught in sexual confusion and brokenness we need to treat them not with condemnation but with love as Jesus did in John 8. Surveys by young non-church urban folk indicate that they judge us by saying we are "anti-gay" when we really need to be reaching out to all people with the love of Christ. If we are not reaching out then we are failing to be the church. G.K. Chesteron said that a man knocking on the door of a brothel is in fact looking for Jesus. Debra said that women often condemn men for pornography but then hide behind the soft porn of celebrity worship and gossip which arouse some crazy things. It was an interesting take on some of these things. I agreed with so much and was inspired to do more- especially in AIDS ministry.
MONDAY NI\GHT WORSHIP-
Highland Park Presbyterian brought in their 100 person choir and led us in singing about five hymns and then they sang about three anthems- with the organ and the piano. It was just amazing music! Just amazing classical anthems and hymns. I got into that. Not as much contemporary worship songs here at this point- that is okay with me for my tastes, though I can appreciate a little of that too.
But the talk this night was simply earth-shaking- you could almost feel the Spirit vibrating the room. It was by Carol Kaminski (prof. of Hebrew at Gordon Conwell- also from Australia). Her main theme was Genesis 12:1-3. This is, the key mission text, the beginning of mission (besides be fruitful and multiply). It was given in a context of barrenness. God often uses bad/sad circumstances to bring about real missions- Sara was barren (Gen 18:11; 11:30). It was in the midst of this that God showed Abraham the stars and said, "Look at the stars you will be more numerous." It was in the slavery of Egypt that the numbers of the Israelites grew to fulfill the command to be fruitful and multiply. It was in Gideon (least person of the smallest tribes) who was told he had too many- to show that it was God who did it. Jehoshaphat marched out against a vast host calling on God to show Himself- He did. Naomi went to Ruth because there was a famine in the land. God takes the most difficult circumstances- our brokenness and brings mission out of that. So encouraging in our situation in the PCUSA.
All of this was just inspiring.
Monday, June 23, 2014
6/23/14 221st PCUSA GA Thoughts
6/23/14- General Assembly Reflection
I was a commissioner from Trinity Presbytery at the 221st GA in Detroit Michigan. I wanted to write out some thoughts on this.
The positive: I almost feel like the person who is leaving church, shaking the preacher's hand and saying "Nice tie preacher!" The good things about the experience were not nearly as impressive as the substance. Fellowship with a lot of good, strong people was had. I thought there was a Pennsylvania, Texas, California, South Carolina connection established with some others sprinkled in. The 250 new worshiping communities was a great thing. Always sending out missionaries was good- but we seemed to have as many retiring as being sent out- and it was only a handful. Heath Rada was the best moderator of the three candidates and would not allow for applause or celebration upon the gay marriage vote passing.
Perhaps this could be called "The Postmodern Assembly." It shows in that we allowed and encouraged different interpretations of marriage, confessions, and scripture.
LOCAL OPTION: The headlines read (rightly) "Presbyterian Church U.S.A. Allows Gay Marriage." But the more accurate headline would be "Presbyterian Church U.S.A. Will not Prosecute Ministers for Performing Gay Marriages in States where Gay Marriage is Legal." But that is too wordy. But the former headline is proper in that a line has been crossed that was not crossed before.
This is a bit like the previous three times that "Local Option" was proposed. Only it is the states' law changes that pushed the local option over the edge into reality at this GA. So in any states where the law allows gay marriage, a PCUSA minister may perform the service at a gay wedding. But the caveat is that in the same AI it states: "Nothing herein shall compel a teaching elder to perform nor compel a session to authorize the use of church property for a marriage service that the teaching elder or the session believes is contrary to the teaching elder's or the session's discernment of the Holy Spirit or their understanding of the Word of God." This is a huge change. In the past what one Presbyterian was allowed, all the denomination is allowed. There was a unity and oneness in policy before. In many ways the "Local Option" idea was turned down in previous debates as it divides the church. Today that division (in thought and practice if not in institution) is a reality. This weakens the centralization of our denomination, and makes a denomination that has send out less missionaries, has less outstanding curriculum, starts less churches, and is weaker in disaster assistance and unity less relevant and important.
AUTHORITY AND CONFESSIONS: The Belhar Confession was passed and sent to the presbyteries for vote (confirmation would take a 2/3 vote. Belhar failed to pass the presbytery vote previously. On the floor of GA several conservatives argued (myself included) that Belhar lifts up unity over idealism or even doctrine (2:8,9). This assembly was not even following the confession that it approved the day before. It is clear from this assembly that the confessional standards are not only secondary but seemingly irrelevant. Five times the confessions speak of marriage as between a man and a woman. The Assembly Committee on the Constitution (ACC) in writing advised against the AI, but on the floor only said that there was tension in the constitution and the assembly had the power to alleviate this tension [we could assume by passing Confessional changes- which it refused or was unable to do]. It seems that the majority views the confession only as an informative history of what one people believed/confessed at that time. It seems the majority also views Scripture as a "guide" more than the Word of God to be obeyed [the overture to change this wording also failed]. One thing to watch in the future, with such a view, do we feel we have the right to change the cannon- adding maybe the Gospel of Thomas? While I voted for Belhar before, and advised the presbytery to do so, I will not do that again. I liked the emphasis on unity and racial sensitivity in Belhar- but if we have the ability to ignore it, then why put it in? We are in a crisis of authority- which postmoderns love to revel in, but leaves our young and our church floundering in debate (about what is right), and pride (thinking we know better than scripture).
THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL- A whole day was spent in talking about money- mainly on how not to spend it (Divestment). If we had no money, there would be no debate. Long after we become irrelevant like the Shakers, the endowment and BOP will still be funding folk. In some ways I understand their thinking that if it worked against South Africa, it might work against the idea of settlements in Israel. One thing was affirmed, that we believe and strive to support the existence of both Israel and a Palestinian state. However, the focus was made on divestment from American companies: Caterpillar, Hewlett Packard, and Motorola. The assembly was told there were conversations going on between the MRTI (the branch that oversees the correctness of our investments) and the companies. But some letters and statements cast doubt on those negotiations. For the most part this was a waste. We do not hurt these companies- for we will sell their stock to another buyer- and there are plenty. The Board of Pensions indicated it had money in these, but would only sell them in good time- and not buy any more of their stock. Similarly, we talked about developing a policy to divest from fossil fuel in order to save the planet. I was made aware (just listening to the debate) that it is quite easy to ask GA to divest but sit in our air conditioned and lit buildings while we debated and then get in our cars or jets and use fossil fuel ourselves to get home
In the end, the unity of the church was held in tact by a kind of concessionary compromise (similar to the Missouri Compromise before the Civil War). I am still a believer that even when a denomination or church makes decisions that go against scripture, scripture still teaches us to not divide. Elijah said he was the only one left but he did not leave. God encouraged the prophet with work to do and seven thousand who did not bow the knee to Baal (the fertility God). Thyatira's faithful- in- an- erring- church (Rev. 2) were told to "hold on to what you have until I come." The teaching that was false in Thyatira was the teaching of Jezebel- (also sexual immorality). Jesus himself (Mt. 13) told the parable of the wheat and tares and net asking us not to judge others but let the Lord do the separation. This does not mean to use our discernment- only to not condemn others or separate from them. There were some concessions to Bible believers to make this digestible- but it was like what someone said privately at GA, "coating a rat in poison." After the vote a motion was made to send out GA folks and others for reconciliation. But that is almost like cutting off someone's leg and then sending them flowers in the hospital. Yet, flowers are better than none, and some chocolate makes the medicine go down. Unity is never easy, and does not matter when we all agree. Unity is difficult but is the Lord's work here.
Some scriptures to consider:
"Do not lie with a woman as you lie with a man that is detestable" (Lev. 18:22- "abomination" KJV).
"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. they must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (Lev. 20:12- same punishment as adultery 20:10 cf. Jn. 8:1-11 where Jesus does not condemn but asks the offender to "leave their life of sin").
In Jesus' own teaching of marriage he says, "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh...therefore what God has joined together let no one separate." (Mark 10:6-9).
"Sanctify them by the truth, your Word is truth." John 17:17
"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." 1 Tim. 6:10
I was a commissioner from Trinity Presbytery at the 221st GA in Detroit Michigan. I wanted to write out some thoughts on this.
The positive: I almost feel like the person who is leaving church, shaking the preacher's hand and saying "Nice tie preacher!" The good things about the experience were not nearly as impressive as the substance. Fellowship with a lot of good, strong people was had. I thought there was a Pennsylvania, Texas, California, South Carolina connection established with some others sprinkled in. The 250 new worshiping communities was a great thing. Always sending out missionaries was good- but we seemed to have as many retiring as being sent out- and it was only a handful. Heath Rada was the best moderator of the three candidates and would not allow for applause or celebration upon the gay marriage vote passing.
Perhaps this could be called "The Postmodern Assembly." It shows in that we allowed and encouraged different interpretations of marriage, confessions, and scripture.
LOCAL OPTION: The headlines read (rightly) "Presbyterian Church U.S.A. Allows Gay Marriage." But the more accurate headline would be "Presbyterian Church U.S.A. Will not Prosecute Ministers for Performing Gay Marriages in States where Gay Marriage is Legal." But that is too wordy. But the former headline is proper in that a line has been crossed that was not crossed before.
This is a bit like the previous three times that "Local Option" was proposed. Only it is the states' law changes that pushed the local option over the edge into reality at this GA. So in any states where the law allows gay marriage, a PCUSA minister may perform the service at a gay wedding. But the caveat is that in the same AI it states: "Nothing herein shall compel a teaching elder to perform nor compel a session to authorize the use of church property for a marriage service that the teaching elder or the session believes is contrary to the teaching elder's or the session's discernment of the Holy Spirit or their understanding of the Word of God." This is a huge change. In the past what one Presbyterian was allowed, all the denomination is allowed. There was a unity and oneness in policy before. In many ways the "Local Option" idea was turned down in previous debates as it divides the church. Today that division (in thought and practice if not in institution) is a reality. This weakens the centralization of our denomination, and makes a denomination that has send out less missionaries, has less outstanding curriculum, starts less churches, and is weaker in disaster assistance and unity less relevant and important.
AUTHORITY AND CONFESSIONS: The Belhar Confession was passed and sent to the presbyteries for vote (confirmation would take a 2/3 vote. Belhar failed to pass the presbytery vote previously. On the floor of GA several conservatives argued (myself included) that Belhar lifts up unity over idealism or even doctrine (2:8,9). This assembly was not even following the confession that it approved the day before. It is clear from this assembly that the confessional standards are not only secondary but seemingly irrelevant. Five times the confessions speak of marriage as between a man and a woman. The Assembly Committee on the Constitution (ACC) in writing advised against the AI, but on the floor only said that there was tension in the constitution and the assembly had the power to alleviate this tension [we could assume by passing Confessional changes- which it refused or was unable to do]. It seems that the majority views the confession only as an informative history of what one people believed/confessed at that time. It seems the majority also views Scripture as a "guide" more than the Word of God to be obeyed [the overture to change this wording also failed]. One thing to watch in the future, with such a view, do we feel we have the right to change the cannon- adding maybe the Gospel of Thomas? While I voted for Belhar before, and advised the presbytery to do so, I will not do that again. I liked the emphasis on unity and racial sensitivity in Belhar- but if we have the ability to ignore it, then why put it in? We are in a crisis of authority- which postmoderns love to revel in, but leaves our young and our church floundering in debate (about what is right), and pride (thinking we know better than scripture).
THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL- A whole day was spent in talking about money- mainly on how not to spend it (Divestment). If we had no money, there would be no debate. Long after we become irrelevant like the Shakers, the endowment and BOP will still be funding folk. In some ways I understand their thinking that if it worked against South Africa, it might work against the idea of settlements in Israel. One thing was affirmed, that we believe and strive to support the existence of both Israel and a Palestinian state. However, the focus was made on divestment from American companies: Caterpillar, Hewlett Packard, and Motorola. The assembly was told there were conversations going on between the MRTI (the branch that oversees the correctness of our investments) and the companies. But some letters and statements cast doubt on those negotiations. For the most part this was a waste. We do not hurt these companies- for we will sell their stock to another buyer- and there are plenty. The Board of Pensions indicated it had money in these, but would only sell them in good time- and not buy any more of their stock. Similarly, we talked about developing a policy to divest from fossil fuel in order to save the planet. I was made aware (just listening to the debate) that it is quite easy to ask GA to divest but sit in our air conditioned and lit buildings while we debated and then get in our cars or jets and use fossil fuel ourselves to get home
In the end, the unity of the church was held in tact by a kind of concessionary compromise (similar to the Missouri Compromise before the Civil War). I am still a believer that even when a denomination or church makes decisions that go against scripture, scripture still teaches us to not divide. Elijah said he was the only one left but he did not leave. God encouraged the prophet with work to do and seven thousand who did not bow the knee to Baal (the fertility God). Thyatira's faithful- in- an- erring- church (Rev. 2) were told to "hold on to what you have until I come." The teaching that was false in Thyatira was the teaching of Jezebel- (also sexual immorality). Jesus himself (Mt. 13) told the parable of the wheat and tares and net asking us not to judge others but let the Lord do the separation. This does not mean to use our discernment- only to not condemn others or separate from them. There were some concessions to Bible believers to make this digestible- but it was like what someone said privately at GA, "coating a rat in poison." After the vote a motion was made to send out GA folks and others for reconciliation. But that is almost like cutting off someone's leg and then sending them flowers in the hospital. Yet, flowers are better than none, and some chocolate makes the medicine go down. Unity is never easy, and does not matter when we all agree. Unity is difficult but is the Lord's work here.
Some scriptures to consider:
"Do not lie with a woman as you lie with a man that is detestable" (Lev. 18:22- "abomination" KJV).
"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. they must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (Lev. 20:12- same punishment as adultery 20:10 cf. Jn. 8:1-11 where Jesus does not condemn but asks the offender to "leave their life of sin").
In Jesus' own teaching of marriage he says, "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh...therefore what God has joined together let no one separate." (Mark 10:6-9).
"Sanctify them by the truth, your Word is truth." John 17:17
"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." 1 Tim. 6:10
Thursday, December 27, 2012
12/27/12- Officer Training
The Fellowship of Presbyterians is having a joint Officer Training for elders and ministers on Saturday, January 12 from 9:30- 3:00 at Saxe Gotha Presbyterian.
Dr. Jim Singleton, president of the national Fellowship of Presbyterians, former senior pastor at First Presbyterian Colorado Springs, and now professor at Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary will be the main speaker. There will be two opportunities for break out sessions for the sessions or diaconate.
There is some cost to get Dr. Singleton here, and pay for lunch. Therefore we are asking each officer bring $20 to pay for expenses. Please pray that this event glorifies God and enhances the ministries of the churches who participate.
For those sessions who have affiliated with The Fellowship of Presbyterians or the Evangelical Covenant Order, this is a great opportunity to not go too far (Minnesota or Orlando- even Atlanta are further than Columbia). But for other sessions in the PCUSA who are considering their options, this is an opportunity to hear about The Fellowship from the President of it.
To make reservations, call Saxe Gotha Presbyterian Church at (803) 359-7770. The church is located at 5503 Sunset Boulevard near the intersection with Cherokee Road.
Our apologies to Trinity Presbytery who formed an officer training event the first of December for the first weekend in January, we did not intend to be in conflict with your event.
Dr. Jim Singleton, president of the national Fellowship of Presbyterians, former senior pastor at First Presbyterian Colorado Springs, and now professor at Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary will be the main speaker. There will be two opportunities for break out sessions for the sessions or diaconate.
There is some cost to get Dr. Singleton here, and pay for lunch. Therefore we are asking each officer bring $20 to pay for expenses. Please pray that this event glorifies God and enhances the ministries of the churches who participate.
For those sessions who have affiliated with The Fellowship of Presbyterians or the Evangelical Covenant Order, this is a great opportunity to not go too far (Minnesota or Orlando- even Atlanta are further than Columbia). But for other sessions in the PCUSA who are considering their options, this is an opportunity to hear about The Fellowship from the President of it.
To make reservations, call Saxe Gotha Presbyterian Church at (803) 359-7770. The church is located at 5503 Sunset Boulevard near the intersection with Cherokee Road.
Our apologies to Trinity Presbytery who formed an officer training event the first of December for the first weekend in January, we did not intend to be in conflict with your event.
Wednesday, March 14, 2012
3/15/12 What Are You Doing Here?
And the word of the LORD came to him: “What are you doing here, Elijah?”
"So why should anybody even consider doing the Fellowship of Presbyterians? Isn't this just another schismatic body?" So I heard someone ask. To look at what God is doing through the old lenses of past fights might do an injustice to what is going on today. In many ways, The Fellowship is an effort to keep schism to a minimum and to hold onto those who are going to leave anyway.
There has been a seismic shift in our denomination with the recent votes of 2010 General Assembly and concurring presbyteries to eliminate national ordination standards. For those who say that nothing has changed, Rulings by the PJC to allow homosexual ministers and by the Board of Pensions to pay for unmarried partner's benefits have made this even clearer. The greater problem is a moving away from scripture as our standard for belief and practice; moving us back to the Pre-Reformation idea that experience, the experts, and the world should shape our belief and practice.
Almost everyone is tired of the endless debates about adultery and homosexuality (chastity and fidelity debates). Yet the Fellowship of Presbyterians is an effort to hold people together both within the churches and holding churches in unity. The Fellowship seeks to have some kind of communication and mission with those who are leaving anyway (this has never officially been tried before), and a way to hold together within the PCUSA without trying to change the denomination through votes or politics (though we will still vote).
The vast majority within the Fellowship of Presbyterians seek to differentiate themselves from the votes and move on to doing something positive (like disaster relief, migrant ministry, starting new churches etc.). Yet, simply because we disagree with some denominational vote and are forming a Fellowship does not necessarily mean we are leaving the denomination- or even taking eventual steps to do so.
Most are driven by what the people are thinking in the pews more than anything else. Some churches are going to leave. Would it not be better for them and for those staying to have some mutual communication and mission? For example, would it be good for Thornwell Home or Presbyterian Communities (Presbyterian Homes) to not have a First Presbyterian Greenville relating to them? Surely the answer for all these institutions is "no." Some churches are sharply divided over this issue, and the Fellowship of Presbyterians is a way for those who disagree with what the denomination has done (and is doing) to find differentiation without separation- to be a faithful remnant where God has providentially placed us. Most ministers in the Fellowship really want to find a way to be faithful to scripture and also to the church, and to keep their churches as united as possible - (though they may be sometimes very diverse and divided, and sometimes united on leaving). We are in a storm, seeking shelter most from God- but huddling together. God reminded Elijah in a similar time of sexual promiscuity (Baal worship was what he fought, and Baal was a fertility god), that there were 7,000 that had not bowed the knee to Baal. God asked Elijah, "What are you doing here?" It is a good question. Perhaps we, like Elijah then, are sheltering ourselves- getting ready to go out an anoint others and make a difference.
10 He replied, “I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.”
11 The LORD said, “Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by.”
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. 13 When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave.
Then a voice said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”
14 He replied, “I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.”
15 The LORD said to him, “Go back the way you came, and go to the Desert of Damascus. When you get there, anoint Hazael king over Aram. 16 Also, anoint Jehu son of Nimshi king over Israel, and anoint Elisha son of Shaphat from Abel Meholah to succeed you as prophet. 17 Jehu will put to death any who escape the sword of Hazael, and Elisha will put to death any who escape the sword of Jehu. 18 Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel—all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.”
19 So Elijah went (1 Kings 19)"So why should anybody even consider doing the Fellowship of Presbyterians? Isn't this just another schismatic body?" So I heard someone ask. To look at what God is doing through the old lenses of past fights might do an injustice to what is going on today. In many ways, The Fellowship is an effort to keep schism to a minimum and to hold onto those who are going to leave anyway.
There has been a seismic shift in our denomination with the recent votes of 2010 General Assembly and concurring presbyteries to eliminate national ordination standards. For those who say that nothing has changed, Rulings by the PJC to allow homosexual ministers and by the Board of Pensions to pay for unmarried partner's benefits have made this even clearer. The greater problem is a moving away from scripture as our standard for belief and practice; moving us back to the Pre-Reformation idea that experience, the experts, and the world should shape our belief and practice.
Almost everyone is tired of the endless debates about adultery and homosexuality (chastity and fidelity debates). Yet the Fellowship of Presbyterians is an effort to hold people together both within the churches and holding churches in unity. The Fellowship seeks to have some kind of communication and mission with those who are leaving anyway (this has never officially been tried before), and a way to hold together within the PCUSA without trying to change the denomination through votes or politics (though we will still vote).
The vast majority within the Fellowship of Presbyterians seek to differentiate themselves from the votes and move on to doing something positive (like disaster relief, migrant ministry, starting new churches etc.). Yet, simply because we disagree with some denominational vote and are forming a Fellowship does not necessarily mean we are leaving the denomination- or even taking eventual steps to do so.
Most are driven by what the people are thinking in the pews more than anything else. Some churches are going to leave. Would it not be better for them and for those staying to have some mutual communication and mission? For example, would it be good for Thornwell Home or Presbyterian Communities (Presbyterian Homes) to not have a First Presbyterian Greenville relating to them? Surely the answer for all these institutions is "no." Some churches are sharply divided over this issue, and the Fellowship of Presbyterians is a way for those who disagree with what the denomination has done (and is doing) to find differentiation without separation- to be a faithful remnant where God has providentially placed us. Most ministers in the Fellowship really want to find a way to be faithful to scripture and also to the church, and to keep their churches as united as possible - (though they may be sometimes very diverse and divided, and sometimes united on leaving). We are in a storm, seeking shelter most from God- but huddling together. God reminded Elijah in a similar time of sexual promiscuity (Baal worship was what he fought, and Baal was a fertility god), that there were 7,000 that had not bowed the knee to Baal. God asked Elijah, "What are you doing here?" It is a good question. Perhaps we, like Elijah then, are sheltering ourselves- getting ready to go out an anoint others and make a difference.
Friday, January 20, 2012
1/20/12- Is There a Difference Between the ECO and the Split Ps?
Then a voice said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”
14 He replied, “I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.”
15 The LORD said to him, “Go back the way you came, and go to the Desert of Damascus. When you get there, anoint Hazael king over Aram. 16 Also, anoint Jehu son of Nimshi king over Israel, and anoint Elisha son of Shaphat from Abel Meholah to succeed you as prophet. 17 Jehu will put to death any who escape the sword of Hazael, and Elisha will put to death any who escape the sword of Jehu.18 Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel—all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.” (1 Kings 19)
(Elijah on Mt. Horeb- Greek Icon)
Thoughts: I have been listening, as many have about the differences between the Presbyterian denominations. I wish we could almost have different people speak to these differences. But since there is no conversation or debate, and people are trying to make educated choices, I thought I would give my point of view.
Basics:
PCUSA- The main denomination- with about 11,000 churches. There are over 300 churches in SC with 72,000 members.
PCUSA- The main denomination- with about 11,000 churches. There are over 300 churches in SC with 72,000 members.
OPC- Orthodox Presbyterian Church- Formed in 1920s. There are 2 churches in SC.
BPC- Bible Presbyterian Church- split off the Orthodox in 1920s over millenialism and Carl McEntyre.
PCA- Split off in 1973 over reunion with the north and Women's Ordination. Since merged with the RPCES (mainly in the midwest- RPCS was a split with the BPC). 1,455 churches 306,000 members.There are about 95 churches in SC.
PCA- Split off in 1973 over reunion with the north and Women's Ordination. Since merged with the RPCES (mainly in the midwest- RPCS was a split with the BPC). 1,455 churches 306,000 members.There are about 95 churches in SC.
EPC- Split off in 1981- 300 churches 115,000 members. Allows for women in ministry and charismatic gifts, but freedom over this. There are 8 EPC churches in South Carolina (Hilton Head, Florence, Longs, Overbrook, Anderson, Dutch Fork, Clover- their presbytery goes from Virginia to SC).
The OPC, BPC, PCA, EPC all have as their confession the Westminster standards (WCF, Larger and Shorter Catechisms).
ECO- Evangelical Covenant Order- splitting off in 2012 over ordination of practicing homosexuals, loose sexual standards, lack of world mission and new church development. Wanting less control of the denomination and more trust. It is affiliated with a group of evangelical churches who wish to remain in the PCUSA through the Fellowship of Presbyterians. Its confessions include 11 confessions that also are agreed to in the PCUSA (Apostles Creed, Nicene Creed, Scots, 2nd Helvetic, Heidelberg, Westminster Confession and catechisms, Barmen Declaration, Confession of 1967, Brief Statement of Faith). They also have Essential Tenets that summarize their beliefs and help interpret the confessions, and a pastoral rule. In South Carolina there are roughly 90 churches who have shown interest in either affiliating with the Fellowship of Presbyterians or joining the ECO.
It appears to me that for many they are making a decision to either 1) Remain in the PCUSA, 2) Go to the ECO, or 3) Go to the EPC. It also appears to me that denominationalism is less important than it used to be (except for the extremes on either side- like the BPs and PCA). The EPC and ECO have similarities- mainly they are more gracious and flexible, have their own property.
So here are the differences as I see them between the EPC and ECO:
1) The EPC allows that you can say no to women's ordination. There are some presbyteries in the EPC that do (Florida presbytery- so First Orlando when they join will have to go to Georgia presbytery to continue their women's ordination).
1) The EPC allows that you can say no to women's ordination. There are some presbyteries in the EPC that do (Florida presbytery- so First Orlando when they join will have to go to Georgia presbytery to continue their women's ordination).
2) The EPC only has the Westminster Standards- and the ECO has the Book of Confessions (see above). However, they both have essential tenets that help interpret the confessions.
3) The EPC recently asked that their chaplains not serve communion with the chaplains of the PCUSA. This is probably and indication of one of the main differences. To me it appears similar to the Donatist controversy (where some said-around 380 AD- that if a minister had been unfaithful to Christ their baptism and communion were no longer valid. Augustine wrote-- and the church agreed-- that baptism and communion do not depend on the purity or association of the minister but on the Lord who makes the sacrament holy). But this also indicates the EPC's disdain for the PCUSA and those who are still inside it (Apparently- or practically joining the PCA in calling the PCUSA apostate). For me, this just seems ironic- one week you're an apostate member and the next because you change your institution you are not. I am an Augustinian on this point- the church will always be somewhat unholy- there is no perfect or pure church. When a church's ecclesiology is to be the pure church on earth, then there will be continual splits (as there were within a few years when the OPC, BPC, and RPCES split off each other in the 1920s). What makes a church or a Christian holy (or unholy) is not the denominational affiliation- but the Lord.
Again, for me, the church will always be somewhat unholy. If we want to be biblical in our theology and ethics, then we also should be biblical about our ecclesiology. Often the church was corrupt in the Bible (Elijah's day it almost died out). But instead of advising the church to form a new nation or church, God advised the church to find those who were still faithful. Certainly Jeremiah, who lived in a most corrupt time, did not seek to form a pure Israel. Jesus, who lived in a really corrupt day, had his followers kicked out of the church- but their purpose was to reform Israel. Paul did not advise the sexually permissive Corinthians to form a new church, but to make efforts to fight sexual immorality in their midst. Thyatira had a corrupt leader- a "Jezebel"- but the faithful were not told to go out and form a 2nd church of Thyatira- but to "only hold onto what you have until I come" (Rev. 2:24,25). Luther and Calvin did not originally seek to form new churches but to reform the old- but were excommunicated. If the Bible is truly the basis of our debates- there are far more calls to love one another, to keep the peace and unity than there are calls to split off when the church sins. For me, the Fellowship of Presbyterians provides a differentiation from the unbiblical and lackadaisical stance the PCUSA, and has a way to keep (at least my) church together. But for those who leave, the ECO provides a more biblical way to not cast rocks at those who are trying to be faithful to the scriptures and where God calls them to serve.
Subscribe to:
Comments (Atom)