The Fellowship of Presbyterians is having a joint Officer Training for elders and ministers on Saturday, January 12 from 9:30- 3:00 at Saxe Gotha Presbyterian.
Dr. Jim Singleton, president of the national Fellowship of Presbyterians, former senior pastor at First Presbyterian Colorado Springs, and now professor at Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary will be the main speaker. There will be two opportunities for break out sessions for the sessions or diaconate.
There is some cost to get Dr. Singleton here, and pay for lunch. Therefore we are asking each officer bring $20 to pay for expenses. Please pray that this event glorifies God and enhances the ministries of the churches who participate.
For those sessions who have affiliated with The Fellowship of Presbyterians or the Evangelical Covenant Order, this is a great opportunity to not go too far (Minnesota or Orlando- even Atlanta are further than Columbia). But for other sessions in the PCUSA who are considering their options, this is an opportunity to hear about The Fellowship from the President of it.
To make reservations, call Saxe Gotha Presbyterian Church at (803) 359-7770. The church is located at 5503 Sunset Boulevard near the intersection with Cherokee Road.
Our apologies to Trinity Presbytery who formed an officer training event the first of December for the first weekend in January, we did not intend to be in conflict with your event.
Thursday, December 27, 2012
Wednesday, March 14, 2012
3/15/12 What Are You Doing Here?
And the word of the LORD came to him: “What are you doing here, Elijah?”
"So why should anybody even consider doing the Fellowship of Presbyterians? Isn't this just another schismatic body?" So I heard someone ask. To look at what God is doing through the old lenses of past fights might do an injustice to what is going on today. In many ways, The Fellowship is an effort to keep schism to a minimum and to hold onto those who are going to leave anyway.
There has been a seismic shift in our denomination with the recent votes of 2010 General Assembly and concurring presbyteries to eliminate national ordination standards. For those who say that nothing has changed, Rulings by the PJC to allow homosexual ministers and by the Board of Pensions to pay for unmarried partner's benefits have made this even clearer. The greater problem is a moving away from scripture as our standard for belief and practice; moving us back to the Pre-Reformation idea that experience, the experts, and the world should shape our belief and practice.
Almost everyone is tired of the endless debates about adultery and homosexuality (chastity and fidelity debates). Yet the Fellowship of Presbyterians is an effort to hold people together both within the churches and holding churches in unity. The Fellowship seeks to have some kind of communication and mission with those who are leaving anyway (this has never officially been tried before), and a way to hold together within the PCUSA without trying to change the denomination through votes or politics (though we will still vote).
The vast majority within the Fellowship of Presbyterians seek to differentiate themselves from the votes and move on to doing something positive (like disaster relief, migrant ministry, starting new churches etc.). Yet, simply because we disagree with some denominational vote and are forming a Fellowship does not necessarily mean we are leaving the denomination- or even taking eventual steps to do so.
Most are driven by what the people are thinking in the pews more than anything else. Some churches are going to leave. Would it not be better for them and for those staying to have some mutual communication and mission? For example, would it be good for Thornwell Home or Presbyterian Communities (Presbyterian Homes) to not have a First Presbyterian Greenville relating to them? Surely the answer for all these institutions is "no." Some churches are sharply divided over this issue, and the Fellowship of Presbyterians is a way for those who disagree with what the denomination has done (and is doing) to find differentiation without separation- to be a faithful remnant where God has providentially placed us. Most ministers in the Fellowship really want to find a way to be faithful to scripture and also to the church, and to keep their churches as united as possible - (though they may be sometimes very diverse and divided, and sometimes united on leaving). We are in a storm, seeking shelter most from God- but huddling together. God reminded Elijah in a similar time of sexual promiscuity (Baal worship was what he fought, and Baal was a fertility god), that there were 7,000 that had not bowed the knee to Baal. God asked Elijah, "What are you doing here?" It is a good question. Perhaps we, like Elijah then, are sheltering ourselves- getting ready to go out an anoint others and make a difference.
10 He replied, “I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.”
11 The LORD said, “Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by.”
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. 13 When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave.
Then a voice said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”
14 He replied, “I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.”
15 The LORD said to him, “Go back the way you came, and go to the Desert of Damascus. When you get there, anoint Hazael king over Aram. 16 Also, anoint Jehu son of Nimshi king over Israel, and anoint Elisha son of Shaphat from Abel Meholah to succeed you as prophet. 17 Jehu will put to death any who escape the sword of Hazael, and Elisha will put to death any who escape the sword of Jehu. 18 Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel—all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.”
19 So Elijah went (1 Kings 19)"So why should anybody even consider doing the Fellowship of Presbyterians? Isn't this just another schismatic body?" So I heard someone ask. To look at what God is doing through the old lenses of past fights might do an injustice to what is going on today. In many ways, The Fellowship is an effort to keep schism to a minimum and to hold onto those who are going to leave anyway.
There has been a seismic shift in our denomination with the recent votes of 2010 General Assembly and concurring presbyteries to eliminate national ordination standards. For those who say that nothing has changed, Rulings by the PJC to allow homosexual ministers and by the Board of Pensions to pay for unmarried partner's benefits have made this even clearer. The greater problem is a moving away from scripture as our standard for belief and practice; moving us back to the Pre-Reformation idea that experience, the experts, and the world should shape our belief and practice.
Almost everyone is tired of the endless debates about adultery and homosexuality (chastity and fidelity debates). Yet the Fellowship of Presbyterians is an effort to hold people together both within the churches and holding churches in unity. The Fellowship seeks to have some kind of communication and mission with those who are leaving anyway (this has never officially been tried before), and a way to hold together within the PCUSA without trying to change the denomination through votes or politics (though we will still vote).
The vast majority within the Fellowship of Presbyterians seek to differentiate themselves from the votes and move on to doing something positive (like disaster relief, migrant ministry, starting new churches etc.). Yet, simply because we disagree with some denominational vote and are forming a Fellowship does not necessarily mean we are leaving the denomination- or even taking eventual steps to do so.
Most are driven by what the people are thinking in the pews more than anything else. Some churches are going to leave. Would it not be better for them and for those staying to have some mutual communication and mission? For example, would it be good for Thornwell Home or Presbyterian Communities (Presbyterian Homes) to not have a First Presbyterian Greenville relating to them? Surely the answer for all these institutions is "no." Some churches are sharply divided over this issue, and the Fellowship of Presbyterians is a way for those who disagree with what the denomination has done (and is doing) to find differentiation without separation- to be a faithful remnant where God has providentially placed us. Most ministers in the Fellowship really want to find a way to be faithful to scripture and also to the church, and to keep their churches as united as possible - (though they may be sometimes very diverse and divided, and sometimes united on leaving). We are in a storm, seeking shelter most from God- but huddling together. God reminded Elijah in a similar time of sexual promiscuity (Baal worship was what he fought, and Baal was a fertility god), that there were 7,000 that had not bowed the knee to Baal. God asked Elijah, "What are you doing here?" It is a good question. Perhaps we, like Elijah then, are sheltering ourselves- getting ready to go out an anoint others and make a difference.
Friday, January 20, 2012
1/20/12- Is There a Difference Between the ECO and the Split Ps?
Then a voice said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”
14 He replied, “I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.”
15 The LORD said to him, “Go back the way you came, and go to the Desert of Damascus. When you get there, anoint Hazael king over Aram. 16 Also, anoint Jehu son of Nimshi king over Israel, and anoint Elisha son of Shaphat from Abel Meholah to succeed you as prophet. 17 Jehu will put to death any who escape the sword of Hazael, and Elisha will put to death any who escape the sword of Jehu.18 Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel—all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.” (1 Kings 19)
(Elijah on Mt. Horeb- Greek Icon)
Thoughts: I have been listening, as many have about the differences between the Presbyterian denominations. I wish we could almost have different people speak to these differences. But since there is no conversation or debate, and people are trying to make educated choices, I thought I would give my point of view.
Basics:
PCUSA- The main denomination- with about 11,000 churches. There are over 300 churches in SC with 72,000 members.
PCUSA- The main denomination- with about 11,000 churches. There are over 300 churches in SC with 72,000 members.
OPC- Orthodox Presbyterian Church- Formed in 1920s. There are 2 churches in SC.
BPC- Bible Presbyterian Church- split off the Orthodox in 1920s over millenialism and Carl McEntyre.
PCA- Split off in 1973 over reunion with the north and Women's Ordination. Since merged with the RPCES (mainly in the midwest- RPCS was a split with the BPC). 1,455 churches 306,000 members.There are about 95 churches in SC.
PCA- Split off in 1973 over reunion with the north and Women's Ordination. Since merged with the RPCES (mainly in the midwest- RPCS was a split with the BPC). 1,455 churches 306,000 members.There are about 95 churches in SC.
EPC- Split off in 1981- 300 churches 115,000 members. Allows for women in ministry and charismatic gifts, but freedom over this. There are 8 EPC churches in South Carolina (Hilton Head, Florence, Longs, Overbrook, Anderson, Dutch Fork, Clover- their presbytery goes from Virginia to SC).
The OPC, BPC, PCA, EPC all have as their confession the Westminster standards (WCF, Larger and Shorter Catechisms).
ECO- Evangelical Covenant Order- splitting off in 2012 over ordination of practicing homosexuals, loose sexual standards, lack of world mission and new church development. Wanting less control of the denomination and more trust. It is affiliated with a group of evangelical churches who wish to remain in the PCUSA through the Fellowship of Presbyterians. Its confessions include 11 confessions that also are agreed to in the PCUSA (Apostles Creed, Nicene Creed, Scots, 2nd Helvetic, Heidelberg, Westminster Confession and catechisms, Barmen Declaration, Confession of 1967, Brief Statement of Faith). They also have Essential Tenets that summarize their beliefs and help interpret the confessions, and a pastoral rule. In South Carolina there are roughly 90 churches who have shown interest in either affiliating with the Fellowship of Presbyterians or joining the ECO.
It appears to me that for many they are making a decision to either 1) Remain in the PCUSA, 2) Go to the ECO, or 3) Go to the EPC. It also appears to me that denominationalism is less important than it used to be (except for the extremes on either side- like the BPs and PCA). The EPC and ECO have similarities- mainly they are more gracious and flexible, have their own property.
So here are the differences as I see them between the EPC and ECO:
1) The EPC allows that you can say no to women's ordination. There are some presbyteries in the EPC that do (Florida presbytery- so First Orlando when they join will have to go to Georgia presbytery to continue their women's ordination).
1) The EPC allows that you can say no to women's ordination. There are some presbyteries in the EPC that do (Florida presbytery- so First Orlando when they join will have to go to Georgia presbytery to continue their women's ordination).
2) The EPC only has the Westminster Standards- and the ECO has the Book of Confessions (see above). However, they both have essential tenets that help interpret the confessions.
3) The EPC recently asked that their chaplains not serve communion with the chaplains of the PCUSA. This is probably and indication of one of the main differences. To me it appears similar to the Donatist controversy (where some said-around 380 AD- that if a minister had been unfaithful to Christ their baptism and communion were no longer valid. Augustine wrote-- and the church agreed-- that baptism and communion do not depend on the purity or association of the minister but on the Lord who makes the sacrament holy). But this also indicates the EPC's disdain for the PCUSA and those who are still inside it (Apparently- or practically joining the PCA in calling the PCUSA apostate). For me, this just seems ironic- one week you're an apostate member and the next because you change your institution you are not. I am an Augustinian on this point- the church will always be somewhat unholy- there is no perfect or pure church. When a church's ecclesiology is to be the pure church on earth, then there will be continual splits (as there were within a few years when the OPC, BPC, and RPCES split off each other in the 1920s). What makes a church or a Christian holy (or unholy) is not the denominational affiliation- but the Lord.
Again, for me, the church will always be somewhat unholy. If we want to be biblical in our theology and ethics, then we also should be biblical about our ecclesiology. Often the church was corrupt in the Bible (Elijah's day it almost died out). But instead of advising the church to form a new nation or church, God advised the church to find those who were still faithful. Certainly Jeremiah, who lived in a most corrupt time, did not seek to form a pure Israel. Jesus, who lived in a really corrupt day, had his followers kicked out of the church- but their purpose was to reform Israel. Paul did not advise the sexually permissive Corinthians to form a new church, but to make efforts to fight sexual immorality in their midst. Thyatira had a corrupt leader- a "Jezebel"- but the faithful were not told to go out and form a 2nd church of Thyatira- but to "only hold onto what you have until I come" (Rev. 2:24,25). Luther and Calvin did not originally seek to form new churches but to reform the old- but were excommunicated. If the Bible is truly the basis of our debates- there are far more calls to love one another, to keep the peace and unity than there are calls to split off when the church sins. For me, the Fellowship of Presbyterians provides a differentiation from the unbiblical and lackadaisical stance the PCUSA, and has a way to keep (at least my) church together. But for those who leave, the ECO provides a more biblical way to not cast rocks at those who are trying to be faithful to the scriptures and where God calls them to serve.
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